I have been told by my students that some do not attend class because the class material is posted on the school web site (the password protected one) and there are students who are discourteous enough in class to distract others who are serious about study. I was shocked by the last statement but I now hear about students who talk during lectures in medical school. When I was a student, only an idiot would pay so little attention to lectures, which were the backbone of the course. Textbooks were sometimes of marginal value because, in being complete, they failed to discriminate between key facts and minutiae. I did have one such idiot in my class so, even then, there were those who had trouble with impulse control.
This article also stimulates some thought about tuition. Universities are incredibly inefficient economic units. When I wrote a grant proposal 13 years ago for a study that would be conducted mostly by computer analysis of Medicare billing records, the overhead factor that had to be added for the university (Dartmouth) was over 40%. Now, we have medical students paying $40,000 per year tuition who do not attend class but essentially take the course online. Of course, that doesn’t apply to clinical study with patients and hospital wards but there is a lot of simulation going on there, too. My student group spent a day at the Surgical Skills Center at USC a couple of weeks ago, practicing tying knots and suturing pigs’ feet back together.
This piece in Inside Higher Ed discusses the role of blogs in law schools and legal education. Online education is coming and high tuition is pushing it faster. I worked on a program to teach medical students to listen to heart sounds a few years ago. My skills at programming animation were not good enough but it is coming and we will be better for it.
Considering how little my students actually study, Dr. K., I fear that online education is just a way that students will believe that they can cheat more efficiently.
But, regardless, change is coming. Isn’t that the catch-word of the upcoming election?
Dr. Capt. Mike K., you are a perpetual pedagogical machine! You never stop learning and never stop teaching. If I ever start feeling “too old”, I’ll look to you, and my former editor who is still at the NC Times, who beats you by five years.
I hope that blogs and the omnipresence of the Internet’s fire hose of information will enable constant learning, at least for those who seek it. There are some extraordinarily high-quality blogs that would match any conventional teacher, such as the Volokh Conspiracy.
I fear that online education is just a way that students will believe that they can cheat more efficiently.
As do I. Also, my own experiences with using online teaching tools (WebCT, specifically) have not been very positive. That is not to say that on-line educating cannot be done effectively, but there is much work left to do to make it a viable alternative.
I hate it when students would chat during lectures..I don’t like it when people distract me during meetings. They assume I’m not interested in the subject matter because they’re not.
OT, I was being trained as a pollworker Tuesday, and one of the senior volunteers was the retired cardiologist who taught me how to sail 30 years ago. He was semi-retired then, and had a sailing shop called Doc’s Dockyard here in Missoula and gave classes, culminating in a turn on his boat at Flathead Lake. I bought 2 small boats from him.
I looked him up in our Republican database and it said he was 106! I think that’s a mistake (more like 90) but I do think there’s something about medicine (and maybe sailing) that keeps its practitioners mentally productive into their very latest years.
He told some pretty funny un-PC jokes while we were sitting there.
Eric, I think there are ways to defeat the cheaters. The second year medical students take their Step I of the USMLE (The “Boards”) during the next six weeks. They take them at a Sylvan Learning Center and it is all done online. For something like English Literature, or History (assuming someone is still teaching that instead of “French Narrative Theory”) essay exams will still be necessary and, until robots that can read freshman essays are invented, your career is safe. Just kidding.
She later thought better of it.
Cassandra, I will report in another 36 years. My mother made it almost to her 103rd. She gave up her apartment 6 months before her 100th. She then moved in with my sister although I tried to interest her in moving in with me. She came out to California for my son’s wedding when she was 99. I’ll post her photo. I’ll have to scan it as that was 10 years ago before my first digital camera.
I do think there’s something about medicine (and maybe sailing) that keeps its practitioners mentally productive into their very latest years.
I was concerned when my mom told me she was still going to the doctor who delivered me 50 years ago. I accompanied her one time recently and have not doubted the man since. Though he is 86 he is sharp as a tack and looks like he could give me a run for my money arm wrestling.
>>>>Universities are incredibly inefficient economic units.
I often bring up Baumol’s cost disease in economic discussions, of which education is a common example. Here’s another link.
Dr. K., the former Dartmouth instructor sounds like a space cadet in a decaying orbit.
Part of it, I suspect, is the post in haste, repent in leisure principle. I know I have written things in anger that I rethought later. It’s human, and most people do it from time to time.
But not admitting fault? That is tougher. And it is pretty common for the current “Generation Me,” of which that instructor is clearly a member. Many of them are profoundly narcissistic hypocrites (demanding great sensitivity toward their own concerns, but also the right to be tactless and blunt to others, for example).
I’m sure that incident will cost the instructor in her new post at Northwestern. A shame, really.
You are also right about trying to change how we educate. A friend of mine points out that we do not research the same way we did 100 years ago. Why should be teach the same way we did 100 years ago?
I have some pedagogical papers by him if you are interested in reading them.
Cassandra, I had a hysterical thing happen in class this last semester. I have a “Stoner Patrol” that comes in late to class, sits in the back of the room, and cannot physically keep their mouths shut for 50 minutes three times a week. And they aren’t talking about class. They are just joking around.
Don’t get me wrong. I was young once too. But I didn’t go to a school that cost nearly 40K a year.
Anyway a couple of quiet Asian students came to me privately, and asked if I could get them to pipe down so that they could concentrate.
So I announced to the class that I would appreciate it if they would direct questions to me during lecture, and keep personal conversation to a minimum.
When I got back to my desk, there was an e-mail from a member of the back row Stoner Patrol. I reproduce a portion of his e-mail, verbatim (and with THC enhanced spelling and grammar):
“I dont appreciate being treated like im a high school. I can sit where i want and talk if i want. If peple have a problem with me, they should tell ME instead of being cowards.”
Classy fellow. Of course, his grade reflects his general world view. I’m sure it’s my fault, not his.
On the other hand, there are lots of great students. They all aren’t obnoxious trustifarians.
Anyway, Cassandra, I know what you mean.
I have some pedagogical papers by him if you are interested in reading them.
I would certainly be interested in reading those papers.
Not a problem, Professor LaRoche! I’ll e-mail you copies tomorrow.
Thanks!
Interesting story from the trenches, Eric.
>>>>I can sit where i want and talk if i want.
There is an assumption here that what he ‘wants’ will lead to some kind of success or happiness later in life. I would say that assumption is false.
There is also the issue of disrespect used as an expression of power. See also the average left wing blog, or radical Islam.
DB, the things that is interesting to me is the rank narcissism. It never even occurs to these people that their antics disturb other people, let alone interfere with their own success.
I remember a very nice student who, during lab meetings with my research group, would leaf through lecture notes and magazines. I told her not to do that, that it was disrespectful to the group and to me, and she airily waved her hand.
“I can multitask. Don’t take it personally,” she advised.
A week or two later, the same student came to my office for advice on a term paper. While she was speaking, I turned to my computer and began accessing my e-mail.
Outraged, she exclaimed “I’m talking to you!”
I turned and smiled. “Oh, don’t take it personally. I can multitask.”
She went beet red.
I don’t think it occurs to these students.
Read Twenge’s book, “Generation Me” for a good view of this kind of thing.
I also get students who get up and go to the restroom during lecture. Strangely, it is NEVER the students doing well in the course. Hmmm.
DB, the things that is interesting to me is the rank narcissism. It never even occurs to these people that their antics disturb other people, let alone interfere with their own success.
I remember a very nice student who, during lab meetings with my research group, would leaf through lecture notes and magazines. I told her not to do that, that it was disrespectful to the group and to me, and she airily waved her hand.
“I can multitask. Don’t take it personally,” she advised.
A week or two later, the same student came to my office for advice on a term paper. While she was speaking, I turned to my computer and began accessing my e-mail.
Outraged, she exclaimed “I’m talking to you!”
I turned and smiled. “Oh, don’t take it personally. I can multitask.”
She went beet red.
I don’t think it occurs to these students.
Read Twenge’s book, “Generation Me” for a good view of this kind of thing.
I also get students who get up and go to the restroom during lecture. Strangely, it is NEVER the students doing well in the course. Hmmm.
After being away for the weekend, I came back this evening to read the remaining comments at the old watering ground…and it was fairly depressing. Some decent posts, but many idiotic and narcissistic ones predominated. Thomas Wolfe may have been right on this score – time will tell.
I don’t know what to say, Dmac. I don’t want to fight with anyone. But I sure don’t want to get embroiled in some of the stuff I see elsewhere. Disagreement is fine. But not “Argument Room” stuff out of Monty Python.
Again, I’m not putting anyone “in the doghouse.” People can choose the way that they would like to interact; voting with their electronic feet. It doesn’t make anyone good or bad to post in one place or another. There are a lot of fine people at the other blog.
Still, it is a varied electronic world, with plenty of room for different kinds of interactions.
It’s good to hear from you, Dmac. I hope to see you around….