UPDATE: The Catholic League is finally calling a spade a spade.
One of the AP stories on priestly sexual abuse admits that “The overwhelming majority of the victims were adolescents. That means very few guilty priests were pedophiles, a term mental health professionals reserve for those who target pre-pubescent children.” Fine. But then it says something which is positively remarkable: “Even though about 80 percent of victims were boys, the John Jay researchers and other experts on sex offenders say it does not mean the perpetrators were gay.” So what would they be? Heterosexual?
Read the rest.
First, I should say that I have not been inside a Catholic church in years with the exception of my son’s wedding last summer. The Church, as in the international organization based in Rome (or Heaven, if you prefer), has had a decade long scandal regarding the actions of priests who committed sexual activities with minors, some of them small children. There are several facets to this scandal. First, a minority of these cases involve clear child molestation. There were several outrageous examples. One of these defrocked priests was murdered in prison as child molesters do not do well with the men in prison.
There is a second group that involves homosexual activity between priests and adolescent boys. Some of those boys may have been experimenting with homosexuality but, once the scandal hit the press, they denied all of this undercurrent to get in on the huge financial settlements. We will never know the truth about many of these cases. The gay community has made frantic efforts to distance itself from the scandal by asserting that gay men, real gay men, are not interested in teenaged boys. They have been a large part of the conflating of the two separate scandals into one “child molestation” case. The men who were involved as 15 and 16 year olds have assisted in the interest of getting a piece of the pie and, perhaps, because their flirtation with homosexuality did not last.
There is an interesting book that has gotten little traction because of the successful effort to conceal the homosexual side of the scandal. It is titled, Goodbye Good Men and describes how, in the 1960s, a “pink mafia” took over the seminaries. Homosexual activity was combined with a leftist ideological slant. Radical nuns interviewed applicants and men who did not favor the ordination of women, were rejected as applicants for the priesthood. The author interviewed many rejected applicants and a number who had left the seminary. Many men leave the seminary because they find that they do not have the vocation and many fear they cannot live a celibate life. Read some of the reviews, many by former seminarians.
We see little about the fact that other denominations, especially those with a leftist slant in ideology, have had similar problems with sexual scandal, even though many allow marriage. The Eastern Orthodox Church, which shares the doctrines of the Roman Church, allows marriage and has had little scandal. Now the scandal seems to be reaching the Pope although it is a lie driven by politics. Maureen Dowd, for example, was raised Catholic. It is true that a number of bishops failed in their obligation to the parishioners by shifting around priests who had had problems instead of reporting them to police. One, some of these cases may have involved consensual acts but with underage boys (or girls in a few cases). Those may have seemed less serious but they are still illegal. Two, many of these bishops may have come from the same pink mafia seminaries and may be too sympathetic to the 60s philosophy that permeated these institutions.
Whatever the case, the Church had a serious problem and it may not be over. I think the only way it will be solved is by making celibacy optional. The politics of some of these seminaries need to be changed, as well. This is all part of the leftist revolution that has reached even to the White House.
Tags: child molesters, homosexuality, priests
I don’t understand why these molesting priests were not simply reported to the police as child molesters by the parents. From out here it looks like parents are outraged that when they reported their priest was abusing their child, the church moved the priest. Did the parents go to the police as a matter of course or not?
[…] Child molester priests and the Pope « A Brief History… […]
I was an altar boy and there were a few weird priests. Not many, but a few. I went to Catholic high school and we had a Christian Brother that we all knew to stay away from after school unless we were in a group. A boy of 15 and over is well aware of these things unless he is retarded. Girls in those days were probably not, or at least not as aware as we were. We would never mention any of this to our parents.
I think the number of cases that involved smaller children, under 10 let’s say, was very small although the few priests did a lot of damage. There, I don’t know why the parents wouldn’t go to the cops. Probably, they were satisfied that the priest was moved. Many religious orders have “funny farms’ although I don’t know what the archdiocese does.
I have always thought the Catholic church brought this scandal upon themselves. As a teenager, I can remember meeting seminary students, and clearly thinking this was a great club for gay men. I don’t have an issue with gay priests or educators but I think gay or straight men who choose not to express their sexuality, can often lead to disaster. Ultimately, the Catholic church has preferred its prejudicial policy against women priest over the safety of children. I see less of a distinction between the abuse of children and youthful exploration of homosexuality, with respect to the abdication of responsibly by adults. My children attend a catholic school and are alter servers for our church. Presently, catholic schools and churches are very wary of abuse and have some of the strongest protection/rules in order to prevent this crime. I do hold the church hierarchy responsible for the moving of problematic priests from parish to parish. It was an unforgivable attempt to cover-up criminal behavior; nethertheless those who participated by abuse or neglect will have to pay the piper.
This is all part of the leftist revolution that has reached even to the White House.
Yeah. It is remarkable how in the last 100 years our hierarchical organizations (academia, legislative, bureaucratic administration) have gone so Left. A friend was cleaning and had some gov’t bulletins from the 1920’s he showed me. Much more conservative than anything we see today. I suspect the easy living from technological progress has let people search for ways to give away other people’s money.
Mary, I agree except the issue of women priests. The Anglican Church has gone far to the left and this includes gay and women priests but the leftist cant is driving parishioners away. A very prosperous Anglican church in Newport Beach has been in the middle of a huge legal battle with the Anglican diocese with the parishioners wanting to leave the diocese and the diocese trying to hold onto the church assets which were all built by the parishioners.
I think the way to do this is with steps like women deacons. The church is two thousand years old. Trying to change it in one generation is dangerous, especially when politics is behind many of the proposed changes.
One problem is that like society at large, the Church bought into the efficacy of psychotherapy. Offending priests were sent to rehab in New Mexico and then reassiged. They should have been defrocked, but that was considered harsh, unforgiving, unchristian etc.
It’s getting harder and harder to go to Mass every week. And no we’re not sheeple and pew potatoes. The faithful look at the priests with a very jaundiced eye. Nowadays during capital campaigns, the priests have to assure us the money is not really going to settle lawsuits against Oregon Province.
Great post, Mike. Cassandra, great point too re efficacy of psychotherapy.
Assuming that rehab would fix the problem (and then reassigning the)was by default making a value judgment: The priest and the image of the Church before the public far, far outweighed the worth of one child. That is the disgrace. Why would they do that and what evidence is there that this has changed at all?
I work with a nun who belongs to one of those really liberal orders that was one of the worst offenders back in the 60’s. I looked up her order since her behavior is as far from “religious” as the most ardent atheists I know, she’s got this veneer of Godliness that is shredded the moment she opens her mouth. She kinda shocks me every time with her behavior.
The lunacy of what the church has done to itself is only equaled by the craziness of the church in much of Central and South America that adopted Khrushchev’s crazy made up Liberation Theology and devolved into bloody communists. Hell, they still follow that crap and don’t even know it was a Soviet plant meant specifically to destabilize the Americas.
“Mary, I agree except the issue of women priests.” Michael that kills me. I want to see equality in my lifetime. I have three daughters and while I am certain none of them want to be priest, I hope they never feel they may not choose any profession. “I think the way to do this is with steps like women deacons.” I remember when the deacon program started at my previous church in Canada and how upset the parish priest was when he announced that only men could do it. He was a young doctor who had survived Nazism, immigrated to Canada and often spoke of equality for all. I adored his attitude of ‘we are going to do it this way till the Bishop tells me no’. Do you know that was twenty years ago and women are still waiting? “Trying to change it in one generation is dangerous, especially when politics is behind many of the proposed changes.” I respectfully disagree. Not changing the church is is hazardous to Catholicism. I’m assuming this blog is somewhat conservative in nature and blaming the left is just silly politics. The Catholic church has had the same problems in other counties that were conservative. The abuse scandal was most likely the result of greed and unchecked power, more than any political slant.
If we get priestesses, the Church will go the way of the Episcos for sure. No thanks.
Mary, I don’t think we can ignore the political aspect of the Church’s problems. You might read a couple of Malachi Martin’s books. Some are Roman a Clef novels and some are non-fiction. This all began with Pope Paul VI who was, in many Italian’s minds, the “Mafia Pope.” It’s an interesting story. For example, did the KGB kill John Paul I? Is that the reason why John Paul II took his name ?
I don’t mean necessarily Democrat and Republican politics but more like communist and non-communist politics.
Doc,
A fellow blogger has posted something on topic which I’ve replied to. It can be found at http://www.www.rrrodak.blogspot.com
(More specifically… http://www.rrrodak.blogspot.com/2010/03/reportage-murphys-law.html)
BILL
Mike wrote…
“Mary, I agree except the issue of women priests.”
Mary replied…
“Michael that kills me. I want to see equality in my lifetime. I have three daughters and while I am certain none of them want to be priest, I hope they never feel they may not choose any profession.”
Two points, Mary: 1) It’s not about what “you” want; not from a theological standpoint; 2) Being a priest or nun isn’t a “profession.”
In other words, Mary, it’s your secular mindset that enables Mike’s observations to “kill you.”
As to Mike’s “political” observations regarding the “whys” and “wherefores,” as usual the doc is right on target. Like me, Mike tends towards objective reality buttressed by historical fact and the scientific method.
Hey… for the record… if we’re talking GOD’S path rather than any human ideology… with respect, I don’t think it’s going to make a tinker’s damn in the end whether the Catholic Church ever ordains women or not.
We have a very nice lesbian minister at “my” Episcopal Church which I attend once or twice a year. (*SMILE*)
BILL
Ridiculous Mr. Barker. I am well aware that a religious life is a calling. What kills me is that a man with daughters and granddaughters, cannot see that they have every right to pursue their calling or profession of choice. Historical fact and scientific method are valid but not as a prerequisite of gender equality. Unless you are prepared to argue that female reproductive organs are not compatible with logic and change (I dare you). God is in charge but I have rocked the cradle for three girls and they know that the rights of gays, minorities and women are intertwined. Women will change the Catholic church just as Elizabeth St. Ledger reformed the Freemasons. It really only took one girl to be the catalyst for historic redress in science, medicine, religion,…the Catholic church will not be any different
Mary, I think you are emotionally invested in this but you don’t seem to acknowledge that the USA is the nation most supportive of women’s rights in the world. Now, the Church of England may have women priests (I can’t remember) but recall that the traditional churches of Europe are empty. I’ve attended Mass in Notre Dame on a Sunday. They cordoned off a small area for those attending the Mass and there were about 200 there.
The issue of women priests is entangled with politics and the people who are most invested in this are often hostile to what the Church stands for. I am far more concerned about women in the Muslim world than I am about women priests.
“the USA is the nation most supportive of women’s rights in the world” Michael, my error, I’m from another continuum. My planet has never had an American female President, let alone Vice-President. You should have seen the way they attacked the women who had the nerve to try. In my world, Sühbaataryn Yanjmaa was the first contemporary political leader in 1953 but the US, under Roosevelt, was just appointing its first female cabinet member. Perhaps in your dimension, the US was first to appoint a female astronaut? Not mine, it was Russian Valentina Tereshkova. First female doctor? Not us either. We have made significant change but you would roll over with laughter(considering your most supportive of women’s rights in the world title), on how they judge women for working in demanding fields, when they have young children. Not to mention how women are judged for the clothing they wear on political campaigns! We are all concerned about the rights of Muslim women but our disquiet does not negate our desire to have equality in the Western World. “Mary, I think you are emotionally invested ” Just a tip, on that little statement: On my planet that’s what we would call a sexist paternalistic stereotype.
I think your post is mostly non sequitur. If you think that American women lack equality, I don’t think we have much more to say to each other.
My post was in reply to your hyperbolic statement: “the USA is the nation most supportive of women’s rights in the world.”
Michael, I grew up in Canada, live here in the US, have made so many trips to Ireland that I could not count them, spent summers in Greece, Nepal etc. We are number one in many things but equality isn’t one of them. Sorry, you didn’t get my satirical post but I leave you with a little thought: “Men of quality are not threatened by women of equality”
Mary writes…
“I am well aware that a religious life is a calling.”
Mary. Religion being a “calling” is neither here nor there. Art – whether portrait/landscape painting or marketing campaigns – can be a “calling.”
Politics can be a “calling.”
Carpentry.. engineering… writing… these can all be “callings.”
No, Mary, what I wrote was that religion is not a profession; it being a “calling” is neither here nor there as reflective of my point.
Mary continued…
“What kills me is that a man with daughters and granddaughters…”
Just out of curiosity… what’s it matter if one has female children or not…??? Whether something is “right or wrong” or even simply “recommended or not” is answerable in and of itself; I don’t see why you link fatherhood and grandfatherhood of female children and grandchildren to motivation or belief.
Mary continued…
“Historical fact and scientific method are valid but not as a prerequisite of gender equality.”
Huh…???
Sorry… but you’ve lost me. Try again. What point is it you’re attempting to advance?
Mary continued…
“Unless you are prepared to argue that female reproductive organs are not compatible with logic and change…”
Hmm… are you counting the brain as an organ?
As to reproductive organs specifically… nope… aside from the hormones the organs themselves don’t present a case for females being incapable of logic. (What’s “change” got to do with anything…???)
Mary continued…
“God is in charge…”
Well… actually… I believe in free will.
Mary continued…
“I have rocked the cradle for three girls and they know that the rights of gays, minorities and women are intertwined.”
Oooo… Kkkk…
Putting the bumper sticker philosophy aside, the thing is… nope… women have no “right” to ordination as Priests within the Catholic Church. (Just trying to get back on point…)
Mary continued…
“Women will change the Catholic church…”
Well… actually… to be technical… since men control the Church and change will come from within the Church… a more accurate guess is that in time both Catholic men and Catholic women will change Church doctrine.
Mary continued…
“Elizabeth St. Ledger reformed the Freemasons.”
OK! I’ll… er… take your word for it. (Though I could have sworn it was Nicholas Cage…)
Mary continued…
“It really only took one girl to be the catalyst for historic redress in science, medicine, religion…”
Again… I’m lost.
In any case… just to be clear… I like women!
Good luck with… er… fighting “The Man,” Mary. God’s speed!
BILL
Mary writes…
“I am well aware that a religious life is a calling.”
Mary. Religion being a “calling” is neither here nor there. Art – whether portrait/landscape painting or marketing campaigns – can be a “calling.”
Politics can be a “calling.”
Carpentry.. engineering… writing… these can all be “callings.”
No, Mary, what I wrote was that religion is not a profession; it being a “calling” is neither here nor there as reflective of my point.
Mary continued…
“What kills me is that a man with daughters and granddaughters…”
Just out of curiosity… what’s it matter if one has female children or not…??? Whether something is “right or wrong” or even simply “recommended or not” is answerable in and of itself; I don’t see why you link fatherhood and grandfatherhood of female children and grandchildren to motivation or belief.
Mary continued…
“Historical fact and scientific method are valid but not as a prerequisite of gender equality.”
Huh…???
Sorry… but you’ve lost me. Try again. What point is it you’re attempting to advance?
Mary continued…
“Unless you are prepared to argue that female reproductive organs are not compatible with logic and change…”
Hmm… are you counting the brain as an organ?
As to reproductive organs specifically… nope… aside from the hormones the organs themselves don’t present a case for females being incapable of logic. (What’s “change” got to do with anything…???)
Mary continued…
“God is in charge…”
Well… actually… I believe in free will.
Mary continued…
“I have rocked the cradle for three girls and they know that the rights of gays, minorities and women are intertwined.”
Oooo… Kkkk…
Putting the bumper sticker philosophy aside, the thing is… nope… women have no “right” to ordination as Priests within the Catholic Church. (Just trying to get back on point…)
Mary continued…
“Women will change the Catholic church…”
Well… actually… to be technical… since men control the Church and change will come from within the Church… a more accurate guess is that in time both Catholic men and Catholic women will change Church doctrine.
Mary continued…
“Elizabeth St. Ledger reformed the Freemasons.”
OK! I’ll… er… take your word for it. (Though I could have sworn it was Nicholas Cage…)
Mary continued…
“It really only took one girl to be the catalyst for historic redress in science, medicine, religion…”
Again… I’m lost.
In any case… just to be clear… I like women!
Good luck with… er… fighting “The Man,” Mary. God’s speed!
Mary, I’m sorry you are angry about something. It may be a failed marriage or some other relationship but it has been interesting to see your opinions. Best of luck.
William R. Barker, If permissible, I will answer you or your blog. Michael, I am married and I adore my husband and to tell you the truth, his love has pervaded me completely. Honestly, I have heard it remarked that I don’t ever get angry but I do remember being annoyed with Santa Claus, when he failed to bring me an easy-bake oven. Perhaps, I have Santa issues;-)
My sympathy to your husband.
Mary,
Feel free to email me at IAMBARKER@gmail.com
BILL
Michael, merci pour l’amusement. My sympathy also to wife#1, wife #2 and principally, to wife#3 😉
Thank you William.
I still have sympathy for your husband.
Ok Michael, you made me laugh. That is the ultimate compliment, in my view. I’ll check in on your blog from time to time but I really need to work on my own blog(terminally bad) and novel (lost in writer’s block). I am sure we could have an interesting debate on health care—-dare I say it? I am all for hcr!
I’m a bit sorry to hear that as I gave you credit for intelligence while I questioned some of your ideology. Well, the Bell Curve still is in force.
As my ten year old would say: OH SNAP! Please continue to question my intellect. I will spiritedly dramatize Irene Adler but woefully, you are only competent of playing Dr. Watson. I am eagerly waiting for your next post on HCR.
Health Care “Reform” will take care of itself as the time goes by. This is a thread about the Catholic Church and the abuse stories. I’m happy to see more discussion of the seminary and homosexuality themes.
Religion is stupid, why can’t people make up their own minds instead of listening to some BS. Complete waste of time. Congratulations on getting your life advice from a bunch of child diddlers.
Actually, if you read any of the links, most of this scandal is gay priests seducing teenaged boys. The proportion who are actually child molesters is quite small. I’m sure you made up your mind after a thorough search of the literature, or at least MTV.